Disappointing Efficiency?

1358 Views 10 Replies 6 Participants Last post by EVolution, 8 mo ago

anaheimlich

Discussion Starter · 9 mo ago

Is anyone else disappointed with the claimed efficiency of the Equinox and other Ultium cars? The AC charging specs imply that the Equinox gets 3mi/kwh (unless the AC curve tapers off after 11.5kwh which would be even more disappointing than the claimed efficiency) which seems awfully low for such a small car. The Lyriq and Blazer get at least 3 for the 2WD models and they are larger cars so maybe my numbers are off but 34mi/ 11.5kwh gives in the low 3's even accounting for charging losses.

On a side note Ive also been very disappointed with Ultiums battery density figures. The epa listing for the Lyriq claimed around 160wh/kg which is the same as the Bolt's battery density, and the Bolt is a >5 year old design. The Bolt is also much more efficient than any of these Ultium cars despite having terrible aerodynamics and alsi has the same cargo space as the Equinox.

Other companies such as Hyundai/Kia, BMW, Mercedes, and Tesla seem to care more about efficiency, and real world range tests also show a gap between Ultium efficiency and other cars (eg Caranddrivers test of the Lyriq gave 2.7mi/kwh which us quite frankly pathetic). GM seems to be going the way of old GM again by competing on price and ignoring other factors like efficiency. I personally don't understand why they don't care, since building a more efficient car would let them put a smaller battery and batteries are still very expensive. Smaller batteries would also mean less wear and tear on everything which could mean lighter suspension components etc. leading to more cost savings,

Oh well rant over gotta let the GM product managers waiting for their pensions screw around

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Nebula1701

· #2 · 9 mo ago

Talking to Hummer owners the vast majority are getting much better range than advertised.

Also all these vehicles are much larger than the Bolt, size and weight does play a part.

As for the cargo space in the Equinox.... I don't really trust the SAE measurements... they aren't perfectly accurate. Also GM chose a lower roofline on the vehicle than the ICE counterpart and that ate away at some of it.

Ultium is also very flexible on chemistry and a Version 2 is just around the corner with better energy density. The Silverado will have many more improvements introduced.

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chEVy4me

· #3 · 9 mo ago

I think GM is focused on selling a high volume of affordable cars. Maybe higher efficiency is more expensive and would require a higher MSRP on the stickers?

I’d rather see them sell 100,000 less efficient cars than 20,000 with state of the art efficiency.

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anaheimlich

Discussion Starter · #4 · 9 mo ago

much better range than advertised.

1.5 mi/kwh is a very low bar, I would hope so ... Also the Hummer's slow charging speeds in mi/hr (mi/kwh * kw) make it a very poor road trip EV but that's another story.,

Also all these vehicles are much larger than the Bolt, size and weight does play a part.

So are the Hyundai/Kia twins and the Tesla Model Y, and they get around 4 mi/kwh even accounting for Tesla's usually inflated numbers. BMW and Mercedes's significantly larger vehicles (iX, EQS) get in the low-mid 3's.

Maybe higher efficiency is more expensive and would require a higher MSRP on the stickers?

My argument is that it wouldn't b/c it would allow them to save on battery costs (smaller battery to get the same range) and make everything else lighter b/c there's less weight to carry around. Batteries cost around $120/kwh and improving efficiency by 10% in a car with a 80 kwh battery would allow the manufacturer to get the same range with a 72.7 kwh battery, saving them around $1000. $1000 per unit is a lot, otherwise why would GM put in cheap window switches and switchgear to save a few pennies instead of putting something nicer?

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anaheimlich

Discussion Starter · #5 · 9 mo ago

I suppose GM has a history of making poor decisions. I own a Bolt, the Bolt has a cd of around 0.3, as does the Toyota Sienna. If they made the Bolt more aerodynamic (eg lower the roof, I've have 6 footers sit in my car with almost 6 inches of headroom to spare) they could claim longer range or put a smaller battery in. A Toyota Sienna scaled down to have the same frontal area as the bolt would almost certainly be more practical than the Bolt too. More efficient cars also reduce charging times in terms of mi/hr; being able to charge at 250kw doesn't mean much if you only get 2mi/kwh, since a car that charges at 150kw and gets 3.5 mi/kwh (eg the ID4) will easily beat you. I do like the Lucid since it gets >4mi/kwh and can charge at almost 300kw peak, meaning you can add 1200mi/hr peak, but it also costs 100k ...

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Nebula1701

· #6 · 9 mo ago (Edited)

anaheimlich said:
1.5 mi/kwh is a very low bar, I would hope so ... Also the Hummer's slow charging speeds in mi/hr (mi/kwh * kw) make it a very poor road trip EV but that's another story.,

I'd give Dark-FX's thread about their 3400 mile trip in their Hummer a read.

3400 mile road trip recap

We recently got back from an ~3400 mile round trip from Metro Detroit to Fort Myers, Florida. Our route went through Nashville on the way down, and back up across West Virginia. Quite a bit of local driving in Fort Myers area. Because of wanting to split things up to limit the amount of time in...

www.hummerchat.com

TLDR: Hummer is fine for road trips.

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anaheimlich

Discussion Starter · #7 · 9 mo ago

Sure, and so is the Bolt. Ive done road trips in my Bolt and they were fine. Would I have preferred a faster charging car? Absolutely.

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anaheimlich

Discussion Starter · #8 · 9 mo ago

btw from reading the report it doesnt seem like the hummer is a ok road trip car. Having to time your L2 stops is pretty sad, and is purely a function of the hummer's terrible efficiency. If you have a car that can do 4mi/kwh then you can add around 25mi/hr and anywhere you charge will be able give you over 200 miles overnight. If youre stuck using 110 you can still get 6mi/hr vs 2.25 in the hummer. The hummer peaks at around 450mi/hr in DC charging, and thats if you find a charger that gives that much power and works (dc reliability is still very iffy), whereas something like the ioniq 5 will easily beat that on a 150kw charger. My original post wasnt about the hummer or whether it was a good car or not, it was about the disappointing efficiency of Ultium. It seems like all the responses have been "it doesnt matter," where it very much does. I hope the final epa ratings for the equinox are closer to 4mi/kwh, otherwise Ill have to wait until a more efficient cheap EV comes along to replace my Bolt.

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Evan1

· #9 · 9 mo ago

I will wait for Alex on Autos to do a road test and see what are the real figures are all about or just wait to see what the new next generation Kona is all about.

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EvWantaBE

· #10 · 8 mo ago

I was hoping same battery size as Blazer, meaning more mileage then Blazer. Was expecting 300 miles
with all wheel drive...not front only. Thought size and weight difference would be a nice buffer to mileage. Or having a 3rd battery option....

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EVolution

· #11 · 8 mo ago

EvWantaBE said:
I was hoping same battery size as Blazer, meaning more mileage then Blazer. Was expecting 300 miles
with all wheel drive...not front only. Thought size and weight difference would be a nice buffer to mileage. Or having a 3rd battery option....

Wouldn't really make sense then. There has to be a defining line between the two in the lineup. Equinox has always been the value alternative. Additionally, the Blazer has more space to house more batteries being several inches wider than the Equinox.

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