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Sure, it's like the LED vs, incandescent lighting discussion. "freedom lovers" in Texas and Oklahoma started hoarding incandescent bulbs rather than switch to "expensive" LED or CFL's. Long term cost of ownership due to electric consumption was not part of their decision making criteria. They looked only at the initial cost.

Also not part of their thinking: the extra heat load that incandescents generate which must then be dealt with by more air conditioning.

Yes, LED's are more expensive at purchase, but total cost of ownership? Way less. I just replaced some (more) 4 foot 34W florescents with ballast bypass 16W LED's from Cree. With a CRI of 90+ the light quality is way better and I've just cut my electric use in half.

So EV deniers can talk about higher upfront cost, but that difference continues to shrink. Meanwhile, my brakes are basically lifetime and my service schedule is crazy. Visual inspections, tire rotations, passenger air filter replacement. And every 5 years, cooling system and brake fluid replacement. That's it! Most I can easily do myself, but I'll let the dealer do the cooling system.



No doubt and no argument, Chip. Still, both my Volt and Bolt were early production and had no issues. An oil hose leak at 30k miles on one and the battery recall on the other. Neither are what I'd consider a first year production line issue. Both were a part supplier issue. YMMV

So I'm not saying there can't be issues. The Hummer EV had some roof panel leaks for example. Not sure if that was assembly, part, or bad design, but it was fixed. Some Gen 2 Volts are experiencing BECM failure. Again, a faulty part, not an assembly issue.

I had the same thought process as well, but then problems started....I'll explain:

1. LEDs have many advantages, but in a vehicle, the manufacturers don't make them as replaceable bulbs, but as sealed units, so when your light goes out, it's a $1500 bill instead of a $6 bulb you could easily replace yourself. Also, in cold weather (Canada), incandescent bulbs are better to melt the snow from your headlights while you drive.

2. About breaks...You're right, but only in a good climate. My rotors rust out completely every 3 years or so, so it doesn't matter if I use the or not. I have never had the privilege of replacing my breaks with actual usage-wear.
 

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I had the same thought process as well, but then problems started....I'll explain:

1. LEDs have many advantages, but in a vehicle, the manufacturers don't make them as replaceable bulbs, but as sealed units, so when your light goes out, it's a $1500 bill instead of a $6 bulb you could easily replace yourself. Also, in cold weather (Canada), incandescent bulbs are better to melt the snow from your headlights while you drive.

2. About breaks...You're right, but only in a good climate. My rotors rust out completely every 3 years or so, so it doesn't matter if I use the or not. I have never had the privilege of replacing my breaks with actual usage-wear.
Yes, heat melts snow. Given that the Chev Equinox EV will have an option for a heated wiper parking area, maybe something for the headlight too? But there will be a cost I'm sure. Still...

Many home luminaries (the tech term for what I call "light fixture" haha) are going this way as well. There is no "bulb". I just installed some closet ceiling lights, er. luminaries. 9" diameter, just over a half inch thick (!!), 150W equivalent but at 18W, 1260 lumen, 90+ CRI, dimmable and 3 Kelvin color choices from warm to daylight. Awesome, love the 17/32" low profile, the ability to select the color and the quality of the light. But someday, when they die, I'll need a new fixture. It's a trade off. Depends on how long they last, right? If a car LED last longer (lifetime?) than an incandescent in a car it's a plus. And like anything, some will be better than others.

Does your car have the GM treated rotors for your brakes, MaybeFutureBuyer?

Called Ferretic Nitro-Carburizing, the patented process cooks rotors at 1,040° F (560° C) for a day, bonding nitrogen atoms to the steel rotors to strengthen and harden them. The process adds a surface treatment of 10 microns to the rotor, about one-tenth the width of a human hair.

Since its introduction on a handful of models in 2008, the “rust-free rotors” have trimmed GM’s related warranty costs by 70%. The auto maker expects it to save customers $400 over a 10-year span by doubling the life of a rotor from 40,000 miles (64,000 km) to 80,000 miles (128,000 km).

The process keeps wheels looking good as well, says John Calabrese, vice president-global vehicle engineering at GM.

I have these on both the Volt and Bolt (standard equipment) and have no rust. Chicago gets snow and plenty of salt. The biggest problem with these on an EV is caused by Regen where that car slows itself down without much need of the brakes, As a result, many can go years without much actual bake pad use. The pads really should be used occasionally just to clean off the rotors. Otherwise they can build up salt that just sits there for very long times. Putting the car in neutral at speed and hitting the brakes every once in a while is a good driver maintenance tip.

Side benefit: no brake dust. I have never had my wheels dirtied with brake dust, they stay very clean.


 

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Yes, heat melts snow. Given that the Chev Equinox EV will have an option for a heated wiper parking area, maybe something for the headlight too? But there will be a cost I'm sure. Still...

Many home luminaries (the tech term for what I call "light fixture" haha) are going this way as well. There is no "bulb". I just installed some closet ceiling lights, er. luminaries. 9" diameter, just over a half inch thick (!!), 150W equivalent but at 18W, 1260 lumen, 90+ CRI, dimmable and 3 Kelvin color choices from warm to daylight. Awesome, love the 17/32" low profile, the ability to select the color and the quality of the light. But someday, when they die, I'll need a new fixture. It's a trade off. Depends on how long they last, right? If a car LED last longer (lifetime?) than an incandescent in a car it's a plus. And like anything, some will be better than others.

Does your car have the GM treated rotors for your brakes, MaybeFutureBuyer?

Called Ferretic Nitro-Carburizing, the patented process cooks rotors at 1,040° F (560° C) for a day, bonding nitrogen atoms to the steel rotors to strengthen and harden them. The process adds a surface treatment of 10 microns to the rotor, about one-tenth the width of a human hair.

Since its introduction on a handful of models in 2008, the “rust-free rotors” have trimmed GM’s related warranty costs by 70%. The auto maker expects it to save customers $400 over a 10-year span by doubling the life of a rotor from 40,000 miles (64,000 km) to 80,000 miles (128,000 km).

The process keeps wheels looking good as well, says John Calabrese, vice president-global vehicle engineering at GM.

I have these on both the Volt and Bolt (standard equipment) and have no rust. Chicago gets snow and plenty of salt. The biggest problem with these on an EV is caused by Regen where that car slows itself down without much need of the brakes, As a result, many can go years without much actual bake pad use. The pads really should be used occasionally just to clean off the rotors. Otherwise they can build up salt that just sits there for very long times. Putting the car in neutral at speed and hitting the brakes every once in a while is a good driver maintenance tip.

Side benefit: no brake dust. I have never had my wheels dirtied with brake dust, they stay very clean.


As for the rotors, I really hope these claims actually work in the real world, but I'm always skeptical, because if they do, all Canadians will do is talk about this. It also depends on the price. If it's $1000 per rotor (like the Mercedes alloy rotor, that really doesn't rust), then It's a little too high. But for me, specifically, this isn't such a high price, because I drive 3000-4000Kkm/year, and 75% highway, so my brake pads can last 15 years (but I replace them with my rotors because it's cheap to do)...But my rotors are still crap after 3 years. I tried all the normal coated ones...It helps make them last maybe 6 months more, but nothing significant. A rotor+pads swap is about 800 CAD, that's 3200 for the 12 years I own a vehicle. So if the special rotors are $800 or under, and truly work (lifetime warranty for parts and labor), then I might consider this.

As for LED's, for the house, of course, it's a good idea! My entire house is LED's. But for a car, I'd like to see an implementation of them that allows you to change the bulb, just like I have LED bulbs in my car now (I converted the halogens to LED's). But all manufacturers are very anti "right to repair", so they'll never do that and keep it a sealed headlight unit. I was a tech at Mazda for 7 years, and I can tell you that the lifespan of LEDs isn't great. At the first hint of condensation, your light is out, and it's $800 to replace (EACH). That will NEVER break even, because a halogen bulb is about $7 and lasts at least a year, and no one keeps their car for 100 years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I have to say I have owned vehicles up in Canada for almost 50 years and I have never had to replace a rotor and I lived in the greater Montreal and Toronto areas, the Edmonton area and a number of other locations. My vehicles also spent time in Arizona.
 

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As for the rotors, I really hope these claims actually work in the real world, but I'm always skeptical,
They are working in the real world since 2011 on my Volt and 2017 on my Bolt. Again, they come as standard equipment. Aftermarket is nowhere close the $1000. I paid a local college auto school $500 to change my rotors and pads on all 4 wheels at 90k miles. That was for parts. The labor was free which was a deal I could not pass up, hence the early change out.
 
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