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Letter to Mary Barra

6K views 67 replies 16 participants last post by  Steverino 
#1 ·
I've been thinking about the removal of the projection subsystem in Android Automotive for GM's upcoming EVs and sent the following to Mary.Barra@gm.com on Sunday. What I didn't want to do was send a "whine" letter, but rather one that made product improvement suggestions that would benefit GM's bottom line while giving GM's customers more control over their vehicles.

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Subject: Removal of Android Auto/Apple Car Play in Ultium EVs

Dear CEO Barra,

The removal of the projection systems for Android and Apple is a mistake. Given that the cell phone industry is continuing to push for higher and higher speeds and that there is limited bandwidth available, this means that current cell phone networks will be replaced. This has occurred at least twice since OnStar was first deployed and GM United States has never offered a way to upgrade the OnStar cellular receiver/transmitter in their vehicles. GM Canada did offer to upgrade for a price the vehicles in Canada during this last network upgrade.

While I understand GM’s desire to ensure they receive telemetry for product improvement, this can be done without requiring an OnStar account. I also understand that as they currently sit, the mobile device versions of Google Maps and Apple Maps are unable to provide some of the information vehicle integrated mapping software can provide. However, rather than take away the ability to run a cell phone powered map via projection, provide this feature as an added cost item (not too much).

In fact, knowing that there is a significant portion of the population that doesn’t want to have GM, or any other automotive manufacturer, to receive telemetry from their vehicles, here’s a proposal that would bring in some more money for GM and keep everyone reasonably happy:
  • Base price includes full OnStar with navigation – If the cell network upgrades during the initial or any subsequent subscription OnStar pays to replace the cell network interface.
  • Additional cost, not more than $100 - $200 US, add the projection systems back to the vehicle. Android Automotive supports projection systems natively and GM is having to explicitly remove this feature.
  • Additional cost, $500 - $1,000 USD – removal of all telemetry from the vehicle via a special OnStar module that doesn’t contain . This gives those who don’t want any telemetry from the vehicle a way to purchase this feature.
Also, below is my list of GM cars from my first vehicle in 1985:

1985 Pontiac Fiero 2M4, traded for a Fiero GT after 8,000 miles because I didn’t trust the engine. About a month later the first media reports of Fiero 2M4 engine bay fires started showing up.
1985 Pontiac Fiero GT, traded for a Pontiac Transport when it no longer met the needs of a new parent.
1990 Pontiac Transport, traded for a Pontiac Montana after 240,000 miles when my kids got tall enough they needed higher backed seats.
2002 Pontiac Montana AWD, traded after 186,000 miles for a 2012 Chevy Cruze LS for my son’s college graduation.
2012 Chevy Cruze ECO, destroyed by hail after 103,500 miles.
2017 Chevy Volt LT, purchased partly with the insurance check from the Cruze ECO and my current vehicle.

The 2024 Equinox EV 2LT was my number one choice to replace the Volt, but with the removal of the projection system from the vehicle, it is now at the bottom of the list while I look at other options.

Sincerely,
Michael Ober
Colorado
 
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#2 ·
I've been thinking about the removal of the projection subsystem in Android Automotive for GM's upcoming EVs and sent the following to Mary.Barra@gm.com on Sunday. What I didn't want to do was send a "whine" letter, but rather one that made product improvement suggestions that would benefit GM's bottom line while giving GM's customers more control over their vehicles.
Thank you. I believe MaybeFutureBuyer has also reached out to GM about the lack of Car Play. The more voices the more pressure!
 
#3 ·
Good start... But if I may add some suggestions:

1. Make the letter in a form of a petition, and mention this forum. Or maybe not a petition, and link the thread about Android auto we already have.

2."If the cell network upgrades during the initial or any subsequent subscription OnStar pays to replace the cell network interface"

Replace "interface" with "networking hardware".

3. Add the fact that Google maps already have the option to find the nearest charger, and will probably have an option of auto route planning for optimal charging in the very near future. Or maybe that's too much...
 
#4 ·
GM's committed to this plan from everything I've read. A significant chunk of their future revenue depends on it. Could they change their mind in 2026 or 2030? Maybe, but I suspect they will proceed full steam ahead in the near term. But, it can't hurt to let them know the decision is unpopular.
 
#5 ·
I agree that the chances this will change anything in the near future are slim to none... But yes, we should at least show them that they'll lose some clientele over it.

Before I knew about this, I didn't even look at anything else, and planned on getting the 2LT or 3LT. Now, I find myself looking at manufacturers with no subscriptions (Mazda, Mitsubishi, Honda, etc), and if I WILL get the Equinox, it will be the 1LT LR +AWD. I'll add my own android auto for it. And we all know the 1LT is probably a loss-leader in that lineup.
 
#10 ·
GM spokeswoman Kelly Cusinato defends the move. She said a GM-built infotainment system will give its customers a better experience than CarPlay or Android Auto. Both Tesla and EV truck maker Rivian use their own in-house-built infotainment systems and do not offer CarPlay or Android Auto.

When asked about GM's future plans to monetize features through the system, Cusinato said, "We are guided by our desire to make the EV customer experience a differentiator in the future and the goal of building on, not stepping back, the benefits Apple CarPlay and Android Auto introduced years ago. We are not expecting customers to pay for basic connectivity.

GM's built-in infotainment system will offer real-time navigation and voice commands, access to a growing list of apps within the Play Store and can read and play back through the voice system text messages from smartphones when connected over Bluetooth, Cusinato said. The new system will also account for the temperature of the EV’s battery when routing the car to a charging station and get the battery ready for charging, thus maximizing range and minimizing charging time when the customer arrives at the station, she said.

"We’re confident customers will see the capabilities, ease of use and benefits of this integrated system, as they become more familiar with it," Cusinato said.

--------------------

So, an in-person test drive is even more important.
 
#11 ·
GM spokeswoman Kelly Cusinato defends the move. She said a GM-built infotainment system will give its customers a better experience than CarPlay or Android Auto. Both Tesla and EV truck maker Rivian use their own in-house-built infotainment systems and do not offer CarPlay or Android Auto.

When asked about GM's future plans to monetize features through the system, Cusinato said, "We are guided by our desire to make the EV customer experience a differentiator in the future and the goal of building on, not stepping back, the benefits Apple CarPlay and Android Auto introduced years ago. We are not expecting customers to pay for basic connectivity.

GM's built-in infotainment system will offer real-time navigation and voice commands, access to a growing list of apps within the Play Store and can read and play back through the voice system text messages from smartphones when connected over Bluetooth, Cusinato said. The new system will also account for the temperature of the EV’s battery when routing the car to a charging station and get the battery ready for charging, thus maximizing range and minimizing charging time when the customer arrives at the station, she said.

"We’re confident customers will see the capabilities, ease of use and benefits of this integrated system, as they become more familiar with it," Cusinato said.

--------------------

So, an in-person test drive is even more important.
I see "Ultium chargers" are now listed in the GM Owners (My Chevrolet) apps. How much you want to bet that only Ultium chargers will appear in the navigation system?
 
#12 ·
I can't really see GM building out their own proprietary DCFC network at this point.....too cost prohibitive and you would risk losing Government (i.e. IRA) subsidies, too....

Plus, imagine all the p**sed-off Chevy EV drivers who wouldn't be able to see Chargepoint, EVgo, or EA chargers listed in the NAV system....

No bueno!!!

🤭
 
#18 ·
And here's the response I received.

We received some correspondence from you at the GM Executive Resolution Team regarding Google Built-In technology that is being integrated into upcoming and future electric vehicles. General Motors has decided that in order to have seamless access to the full breadth of experiences within our advanced in-vehicle displays, we will be integrating industry-leading applications such as Google Maps, Google Assistant, Audible, Spotify, and more.

If you would like to learn more about how General Motors and OnStar will be utilizing Google Built-In, we invite you to review our official website at OnStar Google Built-in | OnStar Services.

If you have any other specific questions, I’d be happy speak with you and will answer what I am able to. My contact information is below in my signature line as well as the service request number, and my contact hours are between Monday and Friday from 08:00 AM to 05:00 PM.
 
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#28 ·
When the Volt came out many said they would not buy it because it lacked a sunroof. A sunroof was a must have for a car. I survived without one. For others, power seats were a must have. Cars are a combination of style, price, performance. Usually the buyer makes a choice based on a car that fits the majority of needs as few cars fit all the needs especially when looking for a lower price range.

For me, the Ultium platform (or another similar) is a must have. I keep cars a long time. I know from my Volt experience what happens when the battery starts having issues in years 10+. As batteries age, some cells can drop below "healthy" which can lead to the car being undriveable. People with perfectly good Volts are scrambling to try to find replacement batteries (or sections or modules). If the Volt used the Ultium platform, swapping in a new modules would be the answer and it would;d address a host of technical issues as well.

I'd rather have a car that's engineered to address battery aging gracefully. Tesla's approach is to replace the entire battery at a significant cost. Most of the other EV makers seem to be ignoring the potential "my 12 year old car is dead and must be junked because it was not designed to enable module replacements" issue.

Now if you plan to sell the car before the battery warranty is up (8 years, 100k miles whichever comes first), no need to worry about battery maintenance after warranty. That's also before you'd need to subscribe for continuing in dash navigation :)
 
#29 ·
When the Volt came out many said they would not buy it because it lacked a sunroof. A sunroof was a must have for a car. I survived without one. For others, power seats were a must have. Cars are a combination of style, price, performance. Usually the buyer makes a choice based on a car that fits the majority of needs as few cars fit all the needs especially when looking for a lower price range.

For me, the Ultium platform (or another similar) is a must have. I keep cars a long time. I know from my Volt experience what happens when the battery starts having issues in years 10+. As batteries age, some cells can drop below "healthy" which can lead to the car being undriveable. People with perfectly good Volts are scrambling to try to find replacement batteries (or sections or modules). If the Volt used the Ultium platform, swapping in a new modules would be the answer and it would;d address a host of technical issues as well.

I'd rather have a car that's engineered to address battery aging gracefully. Tesla's approach is to replace the entire battery at a significant cost. Most of the other EV makers seem to be ignoring the potential "my 12 year old car is dead and must be junked because it was not designed to enable module replacements" issue.

Now if you plan to sell the car before the battery warranty is up (8 years, 100k miles whichever comes first), no need to worry about battery maintenance after warranty. That's also before you'd need to subscribe for continuing in dash navigation :)
And this is why I haven't completely removed the Equinox EV from my consideration. I've used my phone screen for navigation in the past and if I can figure out how to mount it I'm willing to use it again in this mode. My biggest real concern is that GM will again ignore the issue of upgrading the OnStar cellular radio hardware when (not if) the cell network discontinues current 3 and 4G networks. This has actually happened to me - my 2002 Montana lost OnStar access because of a cell network upgrade and if my 2012 Cruze hadn't been totaled it would have lost OnStar access when the 3G network was shut down a couple of years ago.
 
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#48 ·
This is the problem when you (GM) tell people CarPlay, Android Auto will be eliminated without all the details: they will fill in the blanks with fear-based conspiracies, imagined problems, etc. It's just a natural reaction people have to fill in the information void.

The only thing I know is GM wants to make subscription money and they say they'll be as good or better than using a third party (apple, etc.) I'll need to se more details, experience the car. Even then, will we know what a potential fee will be in 8 years? Probably not.

Regarding the 8 years free, my Year 1 Volt came with 5 years free OnStar. Later years came with 3 years free.
 
#49 ·
I'm not afraid of data collection, I'm all for it. I just want the software to be free if they get it. That's the way it works with Google, Apple, Facebook, etc.

And if they think they can do it better, go ahead, give me both options, with only one year free of your system, and if it's that much better, I'll CHOOSE to pay for yours instead of using the AA\ACP.

There's no contradiction between having both systems available. I have 2 systems available on the same head unit right now, and it was only $600.
 
#57 · (Edited)
Sorry, it was stupid of me to even ask that. Of course they do. Is there a manufacturer left without a silly subscription fee?

I have an aftermarket remote start from my phone (I can have the car turned on in Canada, from Israel). I can control the AC and all locks as well. This cost me $400, $0 subscription fee. It's called EvoStart.

I'm principally against subscription fees. I even sold my PS5 and went back to PS3 because of it. I'm tired of everything being a reoccurring payment. I've cancelled my Netflix as well (I use Kodi), and now the only subscription I have left is Spotify, and that's just because my wife likes it, and the dual one cost only $2 more than the single one. I use it every day, but I find that I listen to the same 300-400 songs all the time. Yes, I'm that boring (which is why I don't care giving away any data they will ever want, I just care about paying subscription).
 
#54 ·
This thread started with a copy/paste of the letter I sent to GM Executives. I also included their response when I received it. Bottom line is GM's executives are deaf and dumb when it comes to their customers.
 
#68 ·
Now let's talk about eliminating AM radio which some (not GM) have done. The US congress is now crafting a bill to force all car makers to include AM at no extra cost even if it costs more to shield against the static that AM is susceptible to. If passed, that would mean the higher cost gets baked into all cars, effectively costing all buyers some extra dollars whether they use aM or not. Again, GM seems to have figured out how to keep AM but others are claiming it's too difficult. Or are they just being greedy?
 
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