[Evan1]

I just completed a live tour of the EQ EV. Jimmy, the rep that gave the presentation mentioned that the car battery won't allow buyers to upgrade the battery as it will void the warranty. He said the pack will be updated if there is an issue. I also spoke with Mary from evlive about the same topic in which she said the same thing. I am confused.

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[Steverino]

won't allow buyers to upgrade the battery as it will void the warranty

What were you thinking of doing? Buying the smaller range 1LT and trying to DIY some extra bricks into it? If so, that would be altering the car battery and not surprise they will void its warranty.

 

[Evan1]

What were you thinking of doing? Buying the smaller range 1LT and trying to DIY some extra bricks into it? If so, that would be altering the car battery and not surprise they will void its warranty.

I thought I could add a solid-state battery later on in life. Plug and play.

 

[Steverino]

I thought I could add a solid-state battery later on in life. Plug and play.

Either you are trying to mod the car during its warranty (a no-go) or you are doing it after the warranty has ended, in which case there is no warranty to void, Evan1.

If you are modifying the car under warranty, then your expectation that GM would be fine with that is unrealistic. They would answer the same if you were to take the Silverado gas engine and modify it. You'll have voided the warranty. If something happens you own the problem. Besides, solid state Ultium batteries don't exist.

I think the question is, if and when GM produces Ultium Gen 2 batteries, and my Equinox EV (still under warranty) needs a new brick, will GM use the new Gen 2 bricks to repair the car? They likely have no answer, or will say no, they'll use Gen 1, same as in the car. "But what if there are no more Gen 1, will a Gen 2 be used? After all, that's the Ultium platform promise."

 

[Evan1]

Either you are trying to mod the car during its warranty (a no-go) or you are doing it after the warranty has ended, in which case there is no warranty to void, Evan1.

If you are modifying the car under warranty, then your expectation that GM would be fine with that is unrealistic. They would answer the same if you were to take the Silverado gas engine and modify it. You'll have voided the warranty. If something happens you own the problem. Besides, solid state Ultium batteries don't exist.

I think the question is, if and when GM produces Ultium Gen 2 batteries, and my Equinox EV (still under warranty) needs a new brick, will GM use the new Gen 2 bricks to repair the car? They likely have no answer, or will say no, they'll use Gen 1, same as in the car. "But what if there are no more Gen 1, will a Gen 2 be used? After all, that's the Ultium platform promise."

So what is the plug-and-play battery upgrade you were mentioning before?

 

[obermd]

I suspect it will be upgradable, but doing so will void the warranty. It may also be that newer, higher capacity batteries may not provide more capacity until all modules are replaced and the computer is updated with the new capacity information.

 

[p7wang]

I suspect it will be upgradable, but doing so will void the warranty. It may also be that newer, higher capacity batteries may not provide more capacity until all modules are replaced and the computer is updated with the new capacity information.

That's a great point, the overall usable energy would be based of the lowest capacity pack x number of packs as you need all packs to have enough voltage to run the car. Still replaceable with future battery tech that are lighter and hold more capacity sounds like a great way to keep a then 'classic car' running. LOL

 

[Steverino]

What GM has said is that the bricks can be mixed and matched. They did not say the consumer (you in your garage) would be doing this. These battery packs are not like removing two AA from your remote control. They must be disconnected from the car and dropped (they are very heavy) carefully and opened up. They contain lethal voltage and must be serviced with that in mind. Chevy technicians have special equipment, training, and special gloves for all this.

Swapping in a new brick would be a dealer doing this during the warranty period, not you. After the warranty, well, voiding a warranty by doing your own battery refurbishment is a moot point. If you or whomever you hire has the tools, knowledge and expertise, go for it. By that time there will also likely be lots of used bricks in the secondary auto-salvage market you could use instead of a new brick via an online parts seller, assuming they would sell by the brick.

The main point of the Ultium is NOT that you the consumer will be personally swapping in new bricks whenever the mood strikes you. No, the point is to be able to refurbish the battery even if the bricks are no longer being produced. Instead, the dealer could swap in the current Ultium bricks even if they use a different chemistry. This addresses the issue Volt owner's (and other EV's) are having as their 10+ year old battery's need some modules replaced. The modules are no longer being produced, and you can't swap in Gen 2 Volt modules or Bolt modules in the Volt Gen 1 packs. The Bolt will face the same issue at some point: lack or fresh battery modules.

With Ultium, as long as the bricks being produced at the time meet the physical size/archecture requirements, they can be a suitable replacement. The bricks could even potentially be solid state.

 

[Evan1]

What GM has said is that the bricks can be mixed and matched. They did not say the consumer (you in your garage) would be doing this. These battery packs are not like removing two AA from your remote control. They must be disconnected from the car and dropped (they are very heavy) carefully and opened up. They contain lethal voltage and must be serviced with that in mind. Chevy technicians have special equipment, training, and special gloves for all this.

Swapping in a new brick would be a dealer doing this during the warranty period, not you. After the warranty, well, voiding a warranty by doing your own battery refurbishment is a moot point. If you or whomever you hire has the tools, knowledge and expertise, go for it. By that time there will also likely be lots of used bricks in the secondary auto-salvage market you could use instead of a new brick via an online parts seller, assuming they would sell by the brick.

The main point of the Ultium is NOT that you the consumer will be personally swapping in new bricks whenever the mood strikes you. No, the point is to be able to refurbish the battery even if the bricks are no longer being produced. Instead, the dealer could swap in the current Ultium bricks even if they use a different chemistry. This addresses the issue Volt owner's (and other EV's) are having as their 10+ year old battery's need some modules replaced. The modules are no longer being produced, and you can't swap in Gen 2 Volt modules or Bolt modules in the Volt Gen 1 packs. The Bolt will face the same issue at some point: lack or fresh battery modules.

With Ultium, as long as the bricks being produced at the time meet the physical size/archecture requirements, they can be a suitable replacement. The bricks could even potentially be solid state.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Having the dealer do the swap out from gen 1 to solid state.

 

[Evan1]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Having the dealer do the swap out from gen 1 to solid state. Steve Rino, where does that the batteries can be updated at a later date?

 

[Steverino]

Steve Rino, where does that the batteries can be updated at a later date?

What when is updated date then where.

 

[Evan1]

What when is updated date then where.

I want to read up on the batteries and possible future swap ability. Do you have a link?

 

[Nebula1701]

Gen 2 Ultium isn't likely to show up until 2026.

 

[Peterd15]

I’m trying to understand this post. Are you thinking about trying to upgrade your batteries to a different system in the future? That would be ridiculously expensive. Just wait for the new batteries and buy the car then. Or trade in this car for one with the newer batteries. The point of ultium is to be able to replace part of a battery system for failure. Not to upgrade all of it.

 

[Nebula1701]

I’m trying to understand this post. Are you thinking about trying to upgrade your batteries to a different system in the future? That would be ridiculously expensive. Just wait for the new batteries and buy the car then. Or trade in this car for one with the newer batteries. The point of ultium is to be able to replace part of a battery system for failure. Not to upgrade all of it.

Some of GM's statement from Leadership actually lend to the fact that Batteries could potentially be purchased and replaced in the future, by owners taking them in and swapping them out.
Really though everything is a guess now and even getting a one on one with Product Specialists in these EVLive Show Rooms will not tell you anything concrete until GM has enough batteries and they have the logistics sorted and GM Makes a more solid annoucement.

We probably won't know everything for a few years.

 

[Evan1]

I found a video that describes the Ultium Battery in more detail and how it will evolve with your car over time. Go to the 19-minute mark in the video.

 

[Steverino]

Good video find, Evan1! Haven't seen that one.

The benefit to the owner of an Equinox EV (and the other Ultium-based EVs) is 10+ years after purchase when some cells in a brick start to go bad. At that point, the brick will need to be replaced. Because of the Ultium architecture, you won't be forced to scrounge for 8 to 10 year old bricks that match what your car has. Those old bricks will have degraded to some degree even if they have been sitting on a shelf the entire time. Instead, you should be able to take whatever is currently coming hot off the battery production conveyor belt. The brick may be a totally different chemistry, but it will still work as a replacement. No idea on cost. If battery costs have come down over those 10 years, maybe it won't be too bad.

That's not the case with the Volt, or the Bolt, or likely the Ford Mach-E or Lightning, or many if not all other EV's. They are one-off's with potentially a 10 year obsolescence based on battery components that are no longer being produced.

And then you have the Tesla approach: replace the entire battery back, nothing inside is replaceable.

 

[Evan1]

Good video find, Evan1! Haven't seen that one.

The benefit to the owner of an Equinox EV (and the other Ultium-based EVs) is 10+ years after purchase when some cells in a brick start to go bad. At that point, the brick will need to be replaced. Because of the Ultium architecture, you won't be forced to scrounge for 8 to 10 year old bricks that match what your car has. Those old bricks will have degraded to some degree even if they have been sitting on a shelf the entire time. Instead, you should be able to take whatever is currently coming hot off the battery production conveyor belt. The brick may be a totally different chemistry, but it will still work as a replacement. No idea on cost. If battery costs have come down over those 10 years, maybe it won't be too bad.

That's not the case with the Volt, or the Bolt, or likely the Ford Mach-E or Lightning, or many if not all other EV's. They are one-off's with potentially a 10 year obsolescence based on battery components that are no longer being produced.

And then you have the Tesla approach: replace the entire battery back, nothing inside is replaceable.

If you go to the 19:10 mark in the video the Youtuber mentions that Tesla will use modular battery packs starting with the Semi truck. It is likely other OEMs will adopt this technology. I am glad that GM is heading the trend.

Article/images of module packs: Tesla Semi Technical Images Emerge

 

[Steverino]

Tesla will use modular battery packs starting with the Semi truck

Not exactly. He doesn't say Tesla will be doing this with its cars. He says people wish they would.

He says, "because Tesla can swap in and out to adjust total battery size of the Semi, Tesla can swap out battery tech if the battery tech has a steep change improvement Tesla can sell a 300 mile version and can be upgraded to 500 mile version. I think this should be a default design consideration on all electric vehicles going forward." He does not say Tesla will use modular battery packs on any of its cars. Those have no replaceable components. And this guy is not Tesla. Tesla has said nothing about applying the modularity to its cars.

In contrast, GM has been promoting this idea since the Ultium platform was designed back in 2017.

Note that what he describes is the Ultium platform without saying it or mentioning that GM started delivering vehicles based on this in 2021 with the Hummer EV, and that all its new EV's are built on this concept. In fact the idea that you can add more bricks for longer range and fewer bricks for shorter range is already part of the Ultium design.

Maybe Tesla will change its car battery packs, maybe it will keep them as they are but there is nothing to indicate they will make a 180° u-turn as yet.

Also, he's referencing a few components rather than GM's more granular approach that allows replacement down to the brick level. He seems to be talking instead about larger modules composed of the equivalent of many bricks. Like, let's take one, two or three Model S equivalent battery packs and combine them into a 500 mile range Semi. Or just use two for 300 miles.

 

[obermd]

Some of GM's statement from Leadership actually lend to the fact that Batteries could potentially be purchased and replaced in the future, by owners taking them in and swapping them out.
Really though everything is a guess now and even getting a one on one with Product Specialists in these EVLive Show Rooms will not tell you anything concrete until GM has enough batteries and they have the logistics sorted and GM Makes a more solid annoucement.

We probably won't know everything for a few years.

Since GM already has a "crate motor" for EV conversions it would make sense they would also support EV conversions via the Ultium batteries and Ultifi OS.