[Steverino]

There's been discussion about whether the new Ultium batteries should be charged less than 100% on DCFC, and whether to limit the number of DC fast charges to avoid battery degradation. The common advice has been to avoid both to avoid prematurely aging the battery.

GM's Tim Grewe is saying neither are an issue with the Ultium batteries, so charge away without worry:

Tim Grewe, GM's global electrification and battery systems director, makes some bold claims for the Ultium pack. He says no amount of DC fast-charging will degrade its capacity, and unlike Tesla and others, GM will not suggest the pack be charged to less than 100 percent during normal daily use. He credits the breakthrough to the careful development of the chemistry, including the addition of aluminum into the cell. Grewe also promises that the Ultium pack "will last longer than the Bolt EV's," which he says is making it to between 150,000 and 250,000 miles in the real world, comfortably past its 100,000-mile warranty.

How GM's Ultium Battery Will Help It Commit to an Electric Future

An inside look at the new battery powering General Motors' electric future.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[MaybeFutureBuyer]

For me, it's not about the miles, it's about the time. Most lithium batteries shouldn't be stored at 100% capacity. I wonder if this is something GM has solved as well.

It doesn't matter to me that much, because even keeping it on 80% is good enough for 99.8% of my drives (I drive over 200 Km round trip once every 2-3 years)... But it will still be interesting to know.

 

[EVolution]

I doubt they have solved this issue. Instead, they are probably relying on the modular capabilities of the packs in the Ultium platform knowing that if there are warranty claims due to degradation they can replace packs rather than the whole battery to keep the costs down.

 

[Mapleev]

If it is true, it would be good news for those who do not have a home charging system and rely on fast chargers. They can charge it to 100% each time and visit fast chargers fewer times.

it will also make it simple for people with home chargers, you charge it to 100% each time and if you have a surprise longer drive, you will have the extra range.

 

[EVolution]

If it is true, it would be good news for those who do not have a home charging system and rely on fast chargers. They can charge it to 100% each time and visit fast chargers fewer times.

it will also make it simple for people with home chargers, you charge it to 100% each time and if you have a surprise longer drive, you will have the extra range.

From what I gather most who use fast chargers tend to only charge to 80% not 100% more due to the charging curve than the degradation. If a 20-30 min charge is going to turn into 60 min or more most people are just going to hang it up at 80%.

 

[hellsop]

From what I gather most who use fast chargers tend to only charge to 80% not 100% more due to the charging curve than the degradation. If a 20-30 min charge is going to turn into 60 min or more most people are just going to hang it up at 80%.

If even that high. Bolt charge rate starts tapering at about 60%, and if you're paying by the minute, the price per mile starts climbing then.

 

[MaybeFutureBuyer]

If even that high. Bolt charge rate starts tapering at about 60%, and if you're paying by the minute, the price per mile starts climbing then.

What's all that "paying by the minute" crap they pull? It should be "per kWh". I don't pay by the minute to my electricity provider. It should be "by the minute" when you're fully charged (so, pretty much paying for blocking the charger), and "by kWh" as long as you're charging!

And if it's a problem because it's trickle at the last 5%-10%, then "by the minute" when the rate of charging guess under a certain point (let's say 50% below max rate).

 

[Steverino]

What's all that "paying by the minute" crap they pull? It should be "per kWh".

Not sure about Canada, but in the States only power companies lcan charge by the amount used, So...everyone else is forced to charge by time. Maybe there are some states that allow other to charge by the amount used but I think that pushes them into "public utility" regulations just like a power plant.

 

[MaybeFutureBuyer]

Not sure about Canada, but in the States only power companies lcan charge by the amount used, So...everyone else is forced to charge by time. Maybe there are some states that allow other to charge by the amount used but I think that pushes them into "public utility" regulations just like a power plant.

Gas stations are allowed to do it, so why can't the chargers? It will be much easier for them as well (financial), because they pay by the kWh... So they'll know their margins better.

 

[Mapleev]

Not sure about Canada, but in the States only power companies lcan charge by the amount used, So...everyone else is forced to charge by time. Maybe there are some states that allow other to charge by the amount used but I think that pushes them into "public utility" regulations just like a power plant.

I have no personal experience, but every company I researched on line, I saw that they charged by the minute and how much was charged per minute varied by Company and the charging speed.

 

[obermd]

Not sure about Canada, but in the States only power companies lcan charge by the amount used, So...everyone else is forced to charge by time. Maybe there are some states that allow other to charge by the amount used but I think that pushes them into "public utility" regulations just like a power plant.

The charging networks need to start charging by the KWh and when the government says they can't do that point out that they're fueling motor vehicles. There's an exemption for fuel oil in various forms. In this case electricity is a fuel.

 

[hellsop]

Not sure about Canada, but in the States only power companies can charge by the amount used, So...everyone else is forced to charge by time. Maybe there are some states that allow other to charge by the amount used but I think that pushes them into "public utility" regulations just like a power plant.

California and a couple of other states (12? 17? something like that) allow billing by kwh other than by public utilities. Most states make it impossible, whether directly by statute or indirectly by some technical requirement for metering that's difficult or annoying to implement on a DCFC. I'm not familiar with all the different rules, though. I'd imagine that the charging network operators probably kind of like the time-based option as it encourages people to move on and free up a head which aid in them meeting the demand for capacity a little easier.

 

[Nebula1701]

California and a couple of other states (12? 17? something like that) allow billing by kwh other than by public utilities. Most states make it impossible, whether directly by statute or indirectly by some technical requirement for metering that's difficult or annoying to implement on a DCFC. I'm not familiar with all the different rules, though. I'd imagine that the charging network operators probably kind of like the time-based option as it encourages people to move on and free up a head which aid in them meeting the demand for capacity a little easier.

For some Vehicles Time Based Charging is much cheaper than if they were doing it by kWh.

 

[MaybeFutureBuyer]

For some Vehicles Time Based Charging is much cheaper than if they were doing it by kWh.

Yes. And that isn't really fair. Imagine that both of us are going to the gas station and fueling the same amount, but you pay double what I do. You punish the other with less advanced EVs, which are usually the less-rich people.