Chevy's Ultium platform allowes for replacement of individual modules on the battery, which means you don't need to worry about that. The EQ EV will have 8-10 of these modules.Well I will join this conversation and throw out my concerns - which I'm sure many future EV buyers might have. On a lot of smaller boats your motor (Mercury or what ever) can cost half of what the boat is worth. Pay $20,000 for a boat and the motor is worth $10,000 or so. Now with some of these new EV's i"m wondering what' will be the cost to replace EV battery? Could a large EV battery be worth 1/3 of new car value? Do car manufacturers tell you replacement cost when you buy new EV? Then what is the typical warranty for a given EV battery. In the case of Chevy Equinox EV - how long does GM guarantee battery life? And once you exceed the warranty, are you risking things putting say another couple years on battery without replacing? As in stranded some where before AAA tow.
Then I wonder about reselling an EV in excellent shape but say the battery is five, six, seven years old. On an ICE you just tell the buyer go to Pep Boys, Advanced Auto, Napa auto parts, etc., and pick up a new battery if needed. But on an older EV is buyer going to say "not buying because you EV battery is old and will cost me $XXXX", to replace? Or more likely buying but at a lower price because battery warranty has expired and who wants to spend $XXXX a year later if battery dies. Lastly (and sorry if this is so pessimistic) but I've read where insurance carriers are jacking up EV insurance coverage because if a EV is damaged and it impact battery, repair costs are going to be really high to repair or replace battery.
Seems to me you save some serious money not buy gasoline when driving an EV but you also run a risk of paying some serious money if you have to replace battery or its damaged in an accident. This also might hold true for some Plug-in hybrids since they have two batteries. The only solution to all the above is to produce batteries at a way lower price which will probably happen five to eight years from now. But until then battery replacement might bite EV buyers in the behind or shall we say in the pocket book
41 - 60 of 73 Posts
Chevy's Ultium platform allowes for replacement of individual modules on the battery, which means you don't need to worry about that. The EQ EV will have 8-10 of these modules.
I suppose we can argue about the why's and / or the how's, but we will just have to agree to disagree with the exception of your first statement. "I understand all that, but if the 12v is dead in an ICE car, the car is dead too. That's not even new." I've never owned an ICE vehicle in over 60 years that the battery didn't offer up a tell-tale warning that it was on its last legs. This is not the case for most of the dead battery "bricked" EVs that I've read owner reports from.I understand all that, but if the 12v is dead in an ICE car, the car is dead too. That's not even new.
What I'm saying is that I've never had a dead 12v on an EV. I've read some about the issues other manufacturers have been having and they're.... ones that are outside what I'd consider normal experiences. Ford had a software failure that broke then "unplugged battery maintenance cycle", but that's not a thing non-EVs even HAVE, so... Hyundai had a problem with third-party status apps keeping their cars "awake" with nagging requests, but that's just an unorthodox kind of vampire drain. The rest of the problems I've seen others talk about are far more NORMAL vampire drains: dash cams, radio rigs, etc being installed suboptimally on unswitched circuits.
And there's a LOT of complaining from people who didn't read their owner manuals and lead how to deal with "bricked car" in the first place. I know how Chevy does it because I read that part: unlock door with key, pop hood, supply 12v* to jump lugs provided for that purpose, turn car on, THEN figure out whether the battery drain is just low or if you've damaged your AGM too much to recover onboard. I do not for a second doubt that it'll be exactly that procedure for the Equinox EV as well, because that process works. (Ford apparently puts their 12v source connection behind a cover on the bumper and a LOT of people miss that one for obvious reasons. Or "insufficiently obviousness" reason if you wanna look at it that way.)
* Is a 12v jump pack inelegant? Sure. Does it beat waiting for AAA or GM Roadside to send someone in a truck around? Also sure.
So you're saying its impossible for all individual modules to go bad at the same time? And let's say you have your auto mechanic finds five to six modules need to be replaced. One has to wonder then if mechanic says - you need to replace total battery and not just individual modules. Personally I like the NIO plan where you pay some low annual fee and then get a free battery swap when needed. But I can't quote the fee you pay monthly, quarterly or annually. Safe to say five years from now car manufactures might be using completely different EV batteries then currently being offered in today EV's.Chevy's Ultium platform allowes for replacement of individual modules on the battery, which means you don't need to worry about that. The EQ EV will have 8-10 of these modules.
I'd just like to see battery costs come down, trade in value/resale value of EV not based on the life of a EV battery and maybe some day easy replacement of EV battery by owner versus shop mechanic.
Not impossible NoBugs, but based on Volts in the 12 year+ age range what we see is the failure of one or two cells within a module rather than all the cells going bad. In the Volt battery pack, modules are grouped into Sections and there are three Sections that make up the pack. Replacing a Module (that contains many cells) requires taking apart a Section. Messy but can be done. The Ultium platform is more straight forward.So you're saying its impossible for all individual modules to go bad at the same time?
Which the GM Ultium platform also takes into account. As long as the new Ultium battery brick fits it can be used as a replacement even if the new brick is a different chemistry or even uses a different form factor (cylinder, can) than the 10 year old original prismatic it is replacing.Safe to say five years from now car manufactures might be using completely different EV batteries then currently being offered in today EV's.
Some are doing that today with their Volts, but remember you are dealing with potentially lethal voltage. The replacement requires dropping the battery pack which can weigh quite a bit. Chevy dealer EV techs have special training, equipment and protective gear.maybe some day easy replacement of EV battery by owner versus shop mechanic.
Yes, very close to impossible. There are 8 modules. So while it is a possibility, it's like me saying I won't buy a V8, because all 8 injectors might go bad at the same time.So you're saying its impossible for all individual modules to go bad at the same time? And let's say you have your auto mechanic finds five to six modules need to be replaced. One has to wonder then if mechanic says - you need to replace total battery and not just individual modules. Personally I like the NIO plan where you pay some low annual fee and then get a free battery swap when needed. But I can't quote the fee you pay monthly, quarterly or annually. Safe to say five years from now car manufactures might be using completely different EV batteries then currently being offered in today EV's.
I'd just like to see battery costs come down, trade in value/resale value of EV not based on the life of a EV battery and maybe some day easy replacement of EV battery by owner versus shop mechanic.
Most of the time, only one or a few cells go bad, and most of these times, the cells are at the same module (the one bad cell heats up, ruining the cell next to it. So in a perfect world, we would be able to replace individual cells, but replacing individual modules is the next best things.
Don't get me wrong, all the modules will degrade overtime, you'll have about 70% of the range after 15 years or so (notice I'm NOT talking about km), but they rarely just get bricked.
Also, because the Ultium platform has a BMS (battery management system) for each individual module, theoretically, that means that even if a module goes kaput, you can still drive the car normally, just have 1\8th less range.... Until you can afford to fix it. This last statement I'm not sure of, because GM never commented on that.
Anyway, that whole battery thing was blown out of proportions. It's not a common thing that happens.
All good Steverino and some what comforting regarding long term picture. But correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming Tesla uses different batteries then GM does. Then I'm assume GM uses different batteries that VW does. Then I'm assuming VW uses different batteries than Nio does. Just saying I doubt in 2023 there is a standard line of EV batteries that major car manufacturers are using. So how do you really know you've picked the best EV battery for your respective EV (that you just purchased), if there is no long term (dependability) track records and everyone is building their own personalized/unique battery for specific manufactured EV's? Then you factor in China EV manufacturers and I bet they all have different type batteries. Just saying I'd really be a "happy camper" if I bought an EV in the future and for say 10 years thereafter never ever had to worry about battery dependability. You can disagree but we're in the second inning of a long game and by the time we reach the fifth inning EV makers could be designing and building batteries completely different compared to today. Yea - change is good but when you plop down $30,000, $50,000, $100,000 for an EV are you really buying something that will hold up long term and be happy with. Or will you in two or three years (after EV purchase) look over our shoulder and see a totally different more advance EV or EV battery being offered on dealer lots. The nice thing about ICE was its was the standard since what - the Model T. Now we fast forward and really have to wonder if today's EV and batteries might be the standard for 5 years? 8 years? And I'm excluding self-driving cars or flying cars.Not impossible NoBugs, but based on Volts in the 12 year+ age range what we see is the failure of one or two cells within a module rather than all the cells going bad. In the Volt battery pack, modules are grouped into Sections and there are three Sections that make up the pack. Replacing a Module (that contains many cells) requires taking apart a Section. Messy but can be done. The Ultium platform is more straight forward.
Which the GM Ultium platform also takes into account. As long as the new Ultium battery brick fits it can be used as a replacement even if the new brick is a different chemistry or even uses a different form factor (cylinder, can) than the 10 year old original prismatic it is replacing.
Some are doing that today with their Volts, but remember you are dealing with potentially lethal voltage. The replacement requires dropping the battery pack which can weigh quite a bit. Chevy dealer EV techs have special training, equipment and protective gear.
Interesting, but can’t the same logic be used for ICE vehicles? That is GM engines are different from VW, and VW engines are different than Toyota, and Toyota engines are different than…All good Steverino and some what comforting regarding long term picture. But correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming Tesla uses different batteries then GM does. Then I'm assume GM uses different batteries that VW does. Then I'm assuming VW uses different batteries than Nio does. Just saying I doubt in 2023 there is a standard line of EV batteries that major car manufacturers are using. So how do you really know you've picked the best EV battery for your respective EV (that you just purchased), if there is no long term (dependability) track records and everyone is building their own personalized/unique battery for specific manufactured EV's? Then you factor in China EV manufacturers and I bet they all have different type batteries. Just saying I'd really be a "happy camper" if I bought an EV in the future and for say 10 years thereafter never ever had to worry about battery dependability. You can disagree but we're in the second inning of a long game and by the time we reach the fifth inning EV makers could be designing and building batteries completely different compared to today. Yea - change is good but when you plop down $30,000, $50,000, $100,000 for an EV are you really buying something that will hold up long term and be happy with. Or will you in two or three years (after EV purchase) look over our shoulder and see a totally different more advance EV or EV battery being offered on dealer lots. The nice thing about ICE was its was the standard since what - the Model T. Now we fast forward and really have to wonder if today's EV and batteries might be the standard for 5 years? 8 years? And I'm excluding self-driving cars or flying cars.
The parts are not interchangeable. Try and fit pistons from a Ford V8 into a 4 cylinder KIA.
Your logic, if applied to ICE would mean that all automobile manufacturers use the same parts and engine designs to ensure that an owner can get parts years or decades down the road. That would kind of stifle competition and the development of new technology.
As cars become more advanced (EV or ICE), obsolescence will increasing be a problem. Try to fix a transmission on a recently out-of-warranty luxury performance vehicle... The advanced electronics on today's cars are even worse.
Over a year ago, I was debating whether I should reserve a Bolt EUV or an Equinox EV. I decided against the Bolt in part because it was going to be discontinued or replaced soon and I was worried that, a few years later, availability of parts would be an issue (try to get a Spark EV battery today). With the Equinox EV, the technology is more recent, may have bugs when it comes out and the obsolescence concern may be eventually be worse, but since it is newly launched, one can hope that, 8 years from today, parts should be easier to find than for the Bolt. Also, for a mass-market vehicle like the Equinox EV (I'm confident there will eventually be millions on the road), an after-market of parts and service is more likely to develop than with a niche brand.
Over a year ago, I was debating whether I should reserve a Bolt EUV or an Equinox EV. I decided against the Bolt in part because it was going to be discontinued or replaced soon and I was worried that, a few years later, availability of parts would be an issue (try to get a Spark EV battery today). With the Equinox EV, the technology is more recent, may have bugs when it comes out and the obsolescence concern may be eventually be worse, but since it is newly launched, one can hope that, 8 years from today, parts should be easier to find than for the Bolt. Also, for a mass-market vehicle like the Equinox EV (I'm confident there will eventually be millions on the road), an after-market of parts and service is more likely to develop than with a niche brand.
I'm taking batteries only. Apples to Apples. You bought a Bolt a few years back - enjoy your bolt battery garage fire. Of course GM did the right thing and replaced batteries for free but only after several months went by with owners parking cars on street. Just saying in 2023 there is no "Standard EV battery" that works in all EV. Come say 2027 that might change and maybe by then everyone uses same battery pack. Just saying now - its a crap shoot when buying an EV if your battery is a long term winner or a short term loser.Interesting, but can’t the same logic be used for ICE vehicles? That is GM engines are different from VW, and VW engines are different than Toyota, and Toyota engines are different than…
The parts are not interchangeable. Try and fit pistons from a Ford V8 into a 4 cylinder KIA.
Your logic, if applied to ICE would mean that all automobile manufacturers use the same parts and engine designs to ensure that an owner can get parts years or decades down the road. That would kind of stifle competition and the development of new technology.
Yup, form (prismatic can, cylinder, pouch) can vary and so can chemistry, NoBugs. The difference with Ultium is it can use any of those. They'd need to be Ultium (or the new GM/Samsung SDI) bricks. That flexibility means less worry long term as tech changes.I'm assuming Tesla uses different batteries then GM does. Then I'm assume GM uses different batteries that VW does. Then I'm assuming VW uses different batteries than Nio does. Just saying I doubt in 2023 there is a standard line of EV batteries that major car manufacturers are using.
This is why a warranty is important. If the battery goes and or needs repair, the warranty covers it. But after warranty? That's where having a platform like Ultium comes in handy. Compare that to say, Tesla where the only option is to replace the entire battery pack. Currently that well north of $20k.So how do you really know you've picked the best EV battery for your respective EV (that you just purchased), if there is no long term (dependability) track records and everyone is building their own personalized/unique battery for specific manufactured EV's? Then you factor in China EV manufacturers and I bet they all have different type batteries. Just saying I'd really be a "happy camper" if I bought an EV in the future and for say 10 years thereafter never ever had to worry about battery dependability.
About 12 Bolt's did flame out. Mine did not. There have been rare fires in Tesla's, Ford's, etc. Battery tech is still developing. Of course there are hundreds thousands of gasoline car fires. The main takeaway is what? Cars can catch fire?You bought a Bolt a few years back - enjoy your bolt battery garage fire. Of course GM did the right thing and replaced batteries for free but only after several months went by with owners parking cars on street.
Won't happen, at least not by 2027. 2037? 2047? Who knows. Maybe. Again, this is what warranties are for.Just saying in 2023 there is no "Standard EV battery" that works in all EV. Come say 2027 that might change and maybe by then everyone uses same battery pack. Just saying now - its a crap shoot when buying an EV if your battery is a long term winner or a short term loser.
All valid concerns, NoBugs. I have them too. That's why I'm taking my best shot and getting something that has the best chance of addressing them.
Yes, exactly. But on an EV, the tell-tale warnings that a battery is on its last legs are different, but no less real, than they are on an ICE car. If you know what they are for an EV, you won't be shocked and amazed by an aux battery failure, just as if you recognize them on an ICE, you can ALSO never be left bricked and stranded by an ICE. If you don't recognize how the EV says "Hey, this battery don't taste so good no more", shock and amaze will follow.I suppose we can argue about the why's and / or the how's, but we will just have to agree to disagree with the exception of your first statement. "I understand all that, but if the 12v is dead in an ICE car, the car is dead too. That's not even new." I've never owned an ICE vehicle in over 60 years that the battery didn't offer up a tell-tale warning that it was on its last legs. This is not the case for most of the dead battery "bricked" EVs that I've read owner reports from.
The odds of a fire occurring on my Bolt battery is significantly less than a fire occurring in your ICE vehicle.I'm taking batteries only. Apples to Apples. You bought a Bolt a few years back - enjoy your bolt battery garage fire. Of course GM did the right thing and replaced batteries for free but only after several months went by with owners parking cars on street. Just saying in 2023 there is no "Standard EV battery" that works in all EV. Come say 2027 that might change and maybe by then everyone uses same battery pack. Just saying now - its a crap shoot when buying an EV if your battery is a long term winner or a short term loser.
Your statements appear to be more out of fear and distrust rather than a desire to own an EV.
No vehicle is perfect, technology is always evolving, new products and propulsion systems lie ahead of us, many products become obsolete in just a few short years (TVs and cellphones) and many of us will not keep our vehicles more than 10 years.
We all have concerns about all the products we buy, but we all need to make informed and intelligent decisions based on our own needs and risk tolerances.
They must have, at least for Lyric. As of last week, 3 dealers in my area ( SE PA, S Jersey, and DE. ) have them sitting on their lots begging for buyers. The only color options though seem to be black or sheet metal silver for the '23 DEs.Why would you refer to Hummer and Lyriq as vapourware? Haven't they increased production?
I'm not too concerned about Chevy EV battery life, to be honest.... 😏
I bought a used 2015 Spark EV a year and a half ago....checked the battery capacity in January and got about 94% of factory rated capacity (which is 18.2 kwhr, I believe)....but then as the weather warmed, I started getting significantly better indicated range....over 140 kms, or about 87 miles....which is higher than the factory claimed range of 82 miles per charge....this cheap-a$$ car has thermal battery management and probably didn't get much DC fast charging over its life either.....
🤔
As always, your mileage will vary.....
😎👍
Just my $0.02...
I bought a used 2015 Spark EV a year and a half ago....checked the battery capacity in January and got about 94% of factory rated capacity (which is 18.2 kwhr, I believe)....but then as the weather warmed, I started getting significantly better indicated range....over 140 kms, or about 87 miles....which is higher than the factory claimed range of 82 miles per charge....this cheap-a$$ car has thermal battery management and probably didn't get much DC fast charging over its life either.....
🤔
As always, your mileage will vary.....
😎👍
Just my $0.02...
I was just reading that people are holding cars longer these days partly due to better quality cars but mostly because new and used car prices are much higher.many of us will not keep our vehicles more than 10 years.
"Americans are keeping their cars longer than ever. The average age of a passenger vehicle on the road hit a record 12.5 years this year, according to data gathered by S&P Global Mobility."
As car prices soar beyond reach, Americans keep their vehicles longer than ever
Since the pandemic struck three years ago, the average new vehicle has rocketed 24% to nearly $48,000 in April. Typical loan rates are now 7%.
www.usatoday.com
Yes, especially when it comes to EV's which are new tech compared to gas powered cars. It's a new world, new terminology, new pros and cons. This is why the Volt was such a great car from a learning standpoint. It helps people transition and learn about EV's. It certainly helped me. I have learned a lot over the past 12 years.We all have concerns about all the products we buy, but we all need to make informed and intelligent decisions based on our own needs and risk tolerances.
Unfortunately most people will get an EV without much due diligence and then we'll read about how they had some sort of bad experience as a result. And of course few read the owners manual...
This is why a warranty is important. If the battery goes and or needs repair, the warranty covers it. But after warranty? That's where having a platform like Ultium comes in handy. Compare that to say, Tesla where the only option is to replace the entire battery pack. Currently that well north of $20k.-Yup, form (prismatic can, cylinder, pouch) can vary and so can chemistry, NoBugs. The difference with Ultium is it can use any of those. They'd need to be Ultium (or the new GM/Samsung SDI) bricks. That flexibility means less worry long term as tech changes.
This is why a warranty is important. If the battery goes and or needs repair, the warranty covers it. But after warranty? That's where having a platform like Ultium comes in handy. Compare that to say, Tesla where the only option is to replace the entire battery pack. Currently that well north of $20k.
About 12 Bolt's did flame out. Mine did not. There have been rare fires in Tesla's, Ford's, etc. Battery tech is still developing. Of course there are hundreds thousands of gasoline car fires. The main takeaway is what? Cars can catch fire?
Won't happen, at least not by 2027. 2037? 2047? Who knows. Maybe. Again, this is what warranties are for.
All valid concerns, NoBugs. I have them too. That's why I'm taking my best shot and getting something that has the best chance of addressing them.
Now that would be a nightmare and as I've stated and who then would want an older used Tesla if battery warranty had expired with new car owner possibly looking at replacing used battery at 20 grand plus. It really sounds like future EV trade ins and/or resales to private party could be grossly undervalued depending on the age of EV battery or maybe mileage used on battery.
Wonder in the future if we will see wording in "battery warranty lingo" that only an attorney would understand. On the other hand a ten year free replacement is probably something i could live with but again - who would want to buy my used EV at 8 or 9 years old knowing battery might go bye-bye in two, three, four years. Resale buyers beware.
Every month brings some new improvement in battery research. For those worried about battery life (rightfully so, TBH) need to realize that if the battery is warranteed and now many companies (LG Chem and others) bringing manufacturing stateside, the cost of replacement or repairs should hopefully come down compared to today's $$. The interesting aspect is in ICE, an owner could be blamed for bad gas in the car. Now the same person cannot be blamed for "bad electricity". If one is blamed for surges, heck your circuitry didn't handle it. Bad charging habits, maybe. So follow the guidelines for sure, like not trying to top off charge at every minute you stop.If the Volt is a guide, degradation is more calendar-based than miles driven. Yes, battery recycling needs to be ramped up, but "dead" car batteries have second lives as battery storage systems for solar, wind. Lot's of life let in them after they can't cut it for car use.
You should add a new item - lack of AA/Carplay.
Yes, BUT if the EV is a "one-off" like many are, the availability of replacement batteries is a real concern, AK. This is another lesson taught me by the Volt. If and when the battery goes on mine, my options will be very limited. A $23k refurb from a Chevy dealer or a $10k replacement from the auto junkyard supply chain.many companies (LG Chem and others) bringing manufacturing stateside, the cost of replacement or repairs should hopefully come down compared to today's $$
This is what the Ultium platform is so important to me. It takes this after-warranty scenario into account in it's design.
That's where the ability to later make it battery swap capable (Ample) is so critical to old EVs. For this reason, I would not worry about old Leafs and Bolts.Yes, BUT if the EV is a "one-off" like many are, the availability of replacement batteries is a real concern, AK. This is another lesson taught me by the Volt. If and when the battery goes on mine, my options will be very limited. A $23k refurb from a Chevy dealer or a $10k replacement from the auto junkyard supply chain.
This is what the Ultium platform is so important to me. It takes this after-warranty scenario into account in it's design.
41 - 60 of 73 Posts
Chevy Equinox EV Forum
Chevrolet Equinox EV Community and Owner's Club - Join the conversation about the 2024+ Chevrolet Equinox electric SUV
Full Forum Listing
Top Contributors this Month
View All
Evan1
181 Replies
hellsop
66 Replies
MaybeFutureBuyer
64 Replies
Recommended Communities
